Your textbook compares the Chinese concept of the "dao" to the Indian version of "dharma." It says these concepts can both be interpreted as duty and both have significant influence on the governing of their respective society. What other aspects of Confucianism can be related to other ideas/philosophies we have learned in this class? Then comment on humanity's interconnectedness of ideas in spite of enormous barriers and distance separating all these early civilizations.
Post by Friday, March 27.
29 comments:
In confuscism, there were many aspects of it that compared to other religons and philosophies. For example, everybody was to follow dao and do their specific duty. This connects with the example of equality in America and other religions like Buddhism. Another way that Confucianism connects, is by following the phrase "do not unto others what you would not wish done to yourself", to the Christian phrase " treat others the way you want to be treated". Confucian's skeptical belief of heaven, also relates to what modern day athiests believe. These early civilizations were able to interconnect with one another, through multiple means. One way the civilzations could mingle is through battle and conquest, for values and customs get mixed. However, think about this. Many stories mirror other religions and ideas, with the most influential philosophers all living at that time. With this in mind, maybe the stories that they told, while overembelished, were true. What if the reason why their ideas are so close, is because maybe a godly figure does exist and enlightened a select few with what information they could preach. Think about it
First of all, I was surprised to learn that Peter had his own dynasty. Secondly I though Confucianism sounded very similar to what I personally believe which is not completely Jewish although I was raised a Jew. All religions have the same basic concept of that rule we learned in kindergarten, treat others the way you wanted to be treated. While it manifests itself in each religion differently, as Matchew said the Confucianism phrase “do not unto others what you would not wish done to yourself”, to the Christian phrase “treat others the way you want to be treated” this “rule” can be clearly identified. All religions are based on faith and belief. In general philosophy seems to be the opposite. Questioning what you do not know for certain. Both religions and philosophers (mostly) believe that you should do good things for others, dharma, doing your duty, mitzvoth, etc. I really like what Matt said at the end, and I agree with him, it does make sense that the reasons the stories (minus the embellishments) are so close is because there truly is a God or many?
And i actually posted before Cam :D
It does sound like Confucianism is like the philosophies we have studied. It is like there is a "physis" for life except is called the Dao and it is different for each person rather than one meaning of life. It is interesting how all these philosophies strain from finding the meaning of life and that is a flaw of human nature which is always wanting the know the unknown or explore the barren, in other words curiosity. AS far as the interconnectedness there is bound to be exchanges in culture unless you seal each civilization in a bubble then there will always be an exchange of idea or belief. As for what they are i would have to say that mostly no matter what distance there is human nature is always imbedded which includes deeper ideas, in other words idea with universal meaning. There have been countless messages through different people being repeated and that’s because there is a same group of people fighting for what they believe is right.
Confucius’ idea that government should be opened up to all men that have talent and ability rather than only those that have reached the upper class by birth is part of his system of beliefs. This is similar to the patricians versus the plebians where the tribune of the plebs allowed them to hold office positions in Rome that were formerly given to only the aristocratic patricians. Many of the early civilizations were not located together physically in the land or in the same time frames, but the ideas of people having civic responsibility and human kind being good are ideas that exist in many of the cultures we have studied. Confucius’ idea that a ruler should rule with compassion is one that people can respect. This is like the rule of the five good emperors of Rome who gave respect to the ruling class and were known by their people for tolerance.
I agree with Matt on a lot of things, especially the similarities between early civilizations with no connections to each other. However, Matt said that there was a "god" who enlightened a few people and that it was their job to preach to the world his message. This is where I disagree. I believe that what you called a god was merely that benevolent, civilized part of human nature that caused people to do the right thing. The conscience. In my opinion, a god is just a name for a code of values that people of the same religion follow, and it seems, throughout the world, that many people follow the same code, no matter how many boundaries stand between them.
Sarah Kelley
The idea of confuscism says that a key element is humanity. It is the kindness and respect we show to others and ourselves. This idea is seen in what we were learning with Buddhism and the "Eight Fold Path." Part of controlling your desires to overcome suffering includes the things you do for others. Confucius' intrest in philosophy was political and eithical. Buddhism can also be referred to as a philosophy as well as a religon. The elements of philosophy present with confuscism relate to the work we studied on early philosophers, searching for the "physis" and meaning to life. Much distance seperated early societies, but if you look closely all shared similar beliefs and ideas toward a human's priorities. As Katelyn said, similar ideas of people fufilling civic responsibility and human kindness seems to be the building block of early civilizations. These simple concepts continue to exist today.
I dissagree Cam... Yes, it is human nature to conform to those basic ways, but you are completely ratting on all the other religons! Basically, what your saying is that there is no god, only values. While it might be true...it only might be. What if there really was a godly figure, that visited the 4 philosophers, for they were all "enlightened" at around the same time. I think that everyone should keep an open mind to these things, because there really is no correct answer. Sorry if i offended you in any way! :)
in my personal opinion, (offending people isnt my intention) there is no god. God is a word that we use to describe the rules we live by. someone who follows the values of Buddhism, though raised a catholic, could be a buddhist and not even know it. the only thing that they gain when they discover buddhism is a synonym for "what i personally believe." As many people follow the same values all over the world, many religions have strong similarities.
you make some good points, but i still believe an open mind to an answerless question is the best way to solve the world's divisions.
Other than the idea of Dao and how it influenced Chinese society in a way similar to India’s dharma, I see little similarities. A key difference between western and Chinese philosophies was eastern tolerance. The east allowed non-nobles in their government. This is a more advanced theory than the western one (it didn’t emerge in the west until the house of commons in English parliament was established). In the gift of the Jews, it comments on the Mesopotamian wheel of life idea and how we broke it. This idea also exists in china (yin& yang) and to a lesser degree, in India (the circle could be escaped there.). if a people observe the world in cycles, that’s how they see the world. Many early civilizations emerged in cyclical areas, so it’s no surprise they developed these theories. Confucius says to keep the gods at a distance if they have the same gods as Mesopotamia, I would to. The belief in god kings is common, but the reasons for this are obvious. In superstitious days, it would be impossible for a leader of a human society to establish him or herself without the blessing of the god(s). this was not just true in Sumer and china, but plainly visible in the “culturally advanced” societies of Rome, Europe and even modern America. All of these states rulers have had their control asserted by the representative of god. It is human to believe we are not the pinnacle (do we have a species-wide inferiority complex?) and there is someone above. We need their support to survive. Overall, we share a very similar psyche. It is unsurprising that many people came up with the same ideas. Since our minds are similar, we think the same way. While People have many crazy theories about this (search chariots of the gods), it ultimately boils down to a collective similarity in psychology. Since India and china were at basically the same point in technology, it is unsurprising that they had similar beliefs.
Side note; Hillel (Google him) said the same thing, do what you’d want done to yourself, About Judaism
confuscism has many aspects. i don't know much about any religion because i have never gone to church or practiced any religion. all i know is what we learned in class and the textbook. in class(not this year but in third grade) we learned the golden rule. that is, treat others how you would want to be treated. this was a big part of confuscism. it is also like buddhism. one way to rid yourself of desire to rid yourself of suffering is to be nice to others. i think there are a few way that philosophies could have spread. as people traveled they brought their religion with them influencing people that they meet. also through conquest. the soldiers influence the people and the people influence the soldiers. last is that the conclusion that each philosopher came up with is pretty general so anyone that sat down to think about it could have come up with it. that doesn't take away from the values that they came up with.
i like cam disagree with matt but i also disagree with cam like matt. most people follow 2 sets of laws. physical laws(pay your taxes, no speeding, etc) and moral laws(the way you live your life so you can ascend to where you go after you die based on your religion). god is the one who enforces those moral laws.
Well, I hope I don't make anyone angry by saying this but dao, dharma, and other ideas similar to those are pretty much just ideas made up from stories told trying to teach a lesson. Basically, dao and dharma were created by someone so that people had some sort of code to live by; rules to follow. That also goes for God-like figures (I belive). They were thought up so poeple had a leader of some sorts who theoretically wants the certain rules to be followed and wants everyon to live up to certain expectations. Now I'm not saying that dao and dharma aren't ideas that shouldn't be followed or at least attempted to, nor am I saying that these beliefs aren't real. I'm just saying that I think they're mostly rules made for people to live by.
You can easily see aspects of other religouns in confucinism. The idea of fufilling your duty to better the community, seen in hinduism, and you could see a realtion of doing your duty in confucianism in follolwing the ten commandments or avoiding sin in Christianity. Also as the book said Christianity says to "behave toward others as you would have them behave toward you." and in Confucianism it means the same thing just put into different words, "Do not do unro others what you would not wish done to yourself." In modern times it's the golden rule from elementary school. Treat others the way you want to be treated. All religouns that I know center around the idea of doing whats good and right. You can also see Confucius's idea that the government should be open to all men, in Athenian and American democracy. It is an intersting topic to think about, how people seperated by natural barriers, very long distances and in other parts of the world had the same basic ideas and philosiphy's. My opinion we know what the right thing is, humans aren't savages, some just choose to be.
While I have my own beliefs, Matt i completely agree with you in that respect. I tend to be a cynic, as well as a skeptic, its just a part of who i am. However, if we are ever going to acheive unity as a world culture, that is the best way to do so. While it is the best solution, and an awesome way of looking at religion, I'm WAY too self centered and egotistical to ever be able to truly look at it that way ;D.
Confuscism is similar to many religions and/or philosophies. This religion shares the sane concepts as the Taoist communion with nature and Buddhists similar with the afterlife. Honesty and trustworthy, and livliehood like Buddism possesses in the eight fold path as the one group they contained was to themself. The beliefs refer to or similar to Catholocism and many other religions.
In Confuscism there are several connections that I mad e to not only the Hindu religion But the Christian as well. The Dao is a list of things that each had to do, and each person had it different. I find this very similar to the Hindu religion: I am speaking of the steps to become “one” with the “One”. I wonder how many ones there really are, and if living people are separated with the one, wouldn’t the one be like 1/5 or 1/6876896678968 until all the people join it again? I’m just thinking out loud. Well not really because I’m not thinking… I’m just writing out loud. I know that these steps are the same for everyone (pleasure, wealth, etc…) but the freedom of completing them reminds me of the Dao. I noticed here that all religions seem to have certain Guide lines that must be followed to reach the ultimate power. And I found Confucius to be almost like Buda and Jesus…why do these enlightened “men” keep popping up in these stories?
Confucianism connects to other things we learned in class, however it greatly connects to "drarma. " Confucianism has the concept of dao wich is alos doing your duty though they have two aspects to it. those two aspects are duty and the idea of humanity. Those are basically the two main key things to Confucianism. You are supposed to respect and take responsibilty to do your duty. Where humanity ties into compassion towards other wich realtes to the eightfold path which tells use to respect each other. Confucianism is similar to buddhuism and hinduism yet it still different. All these religions have some concepts the same like duty and respect but yet each has different things, because if they didn't it would simply be just one religion.
The Dao was the ideal vision of a proper person to act. All parents that care for their children will always "nag" their children on such things like good table manners and proper edicate. It is also like in a way to be like the christian religion such as if you were catholic, you would confess your sins in order to make yourself a better person. I am a protestant so if i am not completely clear on the whole confession thing im sorry. This also very much relates to the Hindu religion because it is also their goal to do your duty and become one with Brahma. It is also interesting on how the king acted the "kingly way" how it would circulate through the society. It is sort of like the Brahmins and their idea of giving away everything at the end of their life in order to get to Brahma. I am sure that when people saw a Brahmin do this they would look at him with respect and look up to him for doing something like that.
Boy did Matt and Cam go at it. There are like a bigilion comments by them. I have to agree with Matt’s blog more. I believe his view on the religion connected better and answered the question better no offence cam. I agree with matt and his connections between the two religions. There is no doubt that the religions require you to do a certain duty. Also the golden rule that has been used since we were kids at age seven up until we became even younger kids by age 14-15. All of this and their atheistic view on heaven make Confucianism similar in diverse ways.
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Confucius believed that all men should have a say in their government despite their race, economic or social status. This opened the window for many new systems of equality. Moral values played a large role in this theory. Kindness, respect ad dignity are what were the building blocks. This religion shares many of the same ideas and concepts as the other religions we have learned about.
Dao and dharma kind of relate but dao is already is set out for you, it is a path by which you must follow where as dharma is your duty which can be mostly the same for everyone. Confucianism is connected to other religion and different from other ones like how they have a phrase like "sticks and stones may brake my bones but words will never hurt me." This talks about ones self which is like a part of the eightfolded path in buddhism. Personally, i dont agree with that phrase because i always see people being pansies / ******* over things people say rudely or jokingly. I think that humans thought process can be replicated even though being seperated like how all humans learn to walk to talk and stuff like that. The idea just might be in our heads but only to those that can find it.
One of Confucious' key element of humanity was to treat others with "compassion and empathy" to anyone and everyone. To not perform any actions that you would not approve of if it was directed towards yourself. This relates to the ever popular religion of Christianity because they state as well to treat others the way you want to be treated (usually respect, courtesy, compassion ect). Confucious differs however because he believes that metaphysical questions should be laid of and to rather assume that there was a "rational order to the universe". This would go against others who have thoughts about how and what to achieve in order to learn more about the metaphysis. This would incluide Sidhartha and his 8 Fold Path, Hinduism, and many other philosophies/religions. The fact that Socrates and Siddhartha (can't recall the third one) both found the way to live life was to always be in the middle. Not too much nor too little. Siddhartha found his answer with determination by first having it all, then by having little. He soon found out his answer, interconnected with Socrates' that the middle was the best way to go. If both men found the same answer without ever meeting each other it tells us that they might as well be correct. Its also ironic how the scientific method can be related to all of this.
1. Siddhartha questioned why there was suffering and how to fix it.
2. His background research can be summarized by the 4 passing sights (old age, sickness, death, poverty)
3. He conducted a hypothesis by using other ideas with process of elimination (ex. he was trying to find the answer by first having it all, when that didn't work out he tried having nothing)
4. Siddhartha tested his hypothesis by conducting the experiment, (ex. having little -eating small amount of food) as well as changing variables (manipulated variable - changing course and meditating under a tree for 45 days)
5. Analyzing data and drawing conclusions (he faced impediments from satan, as the story goes, and achieved mindfulnes and intent by surving through the obstacles satan threw at him. Survived through what men would find pleasureable and survived from what men fear; drawed his conclusion consisting of the 8 Fold Path, and 4 Noble Truths).
6. Thus he was profoundly known as "The Awakened One" and resumed his dharma in Earth to help others achieve this same knowledge. As for if his hypothesis was precise or not (which is involved in the last step) can be determined through his results.
Other than the dao or duty the first thing that popped out to me was the conept of Dao it also relates to the teachings that buddha tought. For example the second part ofthe Dao was to behave towards others as you would have them behave towards you. This is what buddha didhis whole life. We just learned today that on his last days he thanked the person for giving him a meal that ultimately killed him. Also in a way Confucius wanted people to follow down the middle path. He told his "followers" to not focus on teh metaphysical questions instead focus on whats going on around you, as in reality. All of these religions we have learned about all believe in this idea of doing your duty. Over time each religion has gained Gods and worshiped them, though they practice more of a philosophy than a religion.
Matt Hoey
I made some connections with Confuscism to other religions. As others said, people who follow Confuscism follow the dao which is doing their duty, just as the Hindu follow dharma. Although, the dao has already been assigned or somewhat. I also agree with matt about the phrase, "do not unto others what you would not wish done to yourself," because it connects with a phrase used by Christians,"treat others the way you want to be treated." All of these religions are very similar, they just follow different things
I personally do not see any connection between the dao and the dharma, i think that they are two completly seperate ideas. Dao is like pre destined fate, while duty affects what happens to you. Confucanism is in a sense like Buddhism or Hinduism, depending on how you look at it, but the ideas vary. They all view the way we personally map out our life. Barriers during these times were probably pretty hard to bypass, so it was kind of like a peer presurred time. If someone does something, and even though you disagree with them, you have to keep your mouth shut and go on with your life.
Edward Cummins
Sorry I didn't have much to say.
the phrase "do unto others..." has a variation in islam too. it is a common practice despite the great distance. in religion and philosophy some things are just common sense. i believe that religioncan be connected to all others because they hav their basis in faith. religion is a label for that which can not be taken away. in the face of adversity, you can always look to the divine as a source of hope. i believe that this is why religion is so popular, and it is also part of the reason why they are similar.
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